Dining across the divide: ‘It was futile – we didn’t agree on anything. But we had a nice meal’ | Life and style

The big beef

Daniel I think immigration policy in the 80s and 90s was quite sensible, and we should go back to that. I’m talking about net figures – they’ve been too high since 2005, to the extent that integration with British people has been quite difficult. Ilyan has been here since 2009, and he admitted that until he started swimming at the Serpentine, several years later, he didn’t know any British people at all.

Ilyan I come from a country where you couldn’t even move from a town to a city without a permit. I treasure the right to move, whether out of a village or from Bulgaria to London. You’re a happier person, you give more, and the world is better. But that didn’t work on Daniel. He went back to the topic of uncontrolled immigration; he was fixated with Tower Hamlets. I hold Britain as an example of good integration – I know in France they’re not as good, and in Germany they have these Turkish enclaves. I think in this country we do a pretty good job.

Daniel If you go to Tower Hamlets, there’s sectarianism there. It’s no longer diverse. Look, in my extended family, there are rightwing people who voted Reform, there are people who voted Labour, Lib Dem, possibly for the Greens. I don’t know anyone who’s decided to vote for independent Muslim candidates. I don’t have any shared opinions with them, there’s nothing that we have in common.

Ilyan I’ve had Muslim friends who opened a whole new world to me. I was telling him about a friend who took me to Tooting High Street, how it was like going to another country – an incredible experience. I thought that might be a way to challenge his perceptions – but they were all rooted in deeply personal, emotional experiences. He talked about how his wife used to live in a Bangladeshi area and didn’t feel as if she was in Britain. It’s very hard to move an argument so viscerally held.